James Pogue’s fascinating Vanity Fair piece on key figures of the New Right, and their vision for a post American America is what you should be reading today. It’s possible to think that this is just a bunch of wealthy, gonzo intellectual types who won’t add much. It’s possible you might be right. You might be right. But also think of Lenin, the Bolsheviks early in their Siberian exile. They met to study, build community and plan for the future that they wanted.
It was a surprise to me to see my name and the names of my friends, Patrick Deneen and Paul Kingsnorth, both intellectual contributors to these conversations. Let me quote these passages. I’ll explain why later.
The me part:
He had just purchased a small country resort and tavern located in Story, Wyoming. It was located in a peaceful creekside cove of Ponderosas. The island is shady and hidden from the surrounding sagebrush desert. He asked me “Pretty good hideout?” as we shared a glass of wine. We also discussed guns, European fiction and the possibility for civil war. It was a bustling hub of activity. The owner was paying several young Christian families to prepare the place for public opening. He was openly conflicted over his role in shaping the West. He said that he was unsure of his role in the West’s churn. A tall, bearded Iowa minister had arrived with his family to assist him in the construction. There were about a dozen children in homemade clothes and denim rushing around cooking and doing light demolition. This scene was an example of “crunchy conservatism,” a community described by Rod Dreher, a writer who champions localism but has long advocated for the exclusion of conservative Christians as a means of protecting their culture. This was the process that led Dreher to leave America and move to Hungary where he became a vocal supporter for Viktor Orban, the far-right prime minster. McNiel stated that while he loves localism, there comes a time when it can become blood and soil. “I feel that my role is to advocate for a localism which doesn’t lead to exclusion.”
Dreher came to Hungary because he loved the country and supported what was happening there in general. However, he also moved to Hungary because his wife was divorcing and the complications that have resulted from that sad event have made it extremely difficult for family relationships at the moment. He moved to Hungary to be able to recover. Dreher’s son, who is older than him, just graduated college and joined him in Budapest.
Part of Kingsnorth:
I drove north towards Montana to visit Paul McNiel. I first met him back in 2020 at a Fourth of Jul picnic. He said that Livingston had the highest per capita concentration of contributors The New Yorker of any American city. McNiel is extremely well-read and friendly with many literary types. McNiel is a bit prepper and, while he is deeply Christian he doesn’t consider himself to be right-wing. “I don’t believe the division is right-left anymore. He said it was us against the machine, borrowing from Paul Kingsnorth, an English writer whose writings criticizing the power of technology and money in modern society have been a hit with dissidents. He dismissed the idea of local armed groups being inundated with new members. He said that if you don’t want to shoot federal agents, you aren’t serious about it. They don’t take it seriously.”
Part Deneen:
Jon Stokes was a Harvard Divinity School grad from Louisiana. He cofounded and sold Ars Technica to Conde Nast, which owns Vanity Fair. Stokes was a prominent figure in the online prep world. Stokes was also a member of Open Source Defense, a sophisticated but slightly esoteric pro gun group. It turned out that he was also a member Srinivasan’s 1729 group.
He said that Balaji had a thing for the media. He said, “So I certainly can’t speak about that to you.” However, he was eager to discuss why he was interested and what he had learned. I asked him if all this chaos we are experiencing is part of the normal course of history. He said that it was no different from the upheavals of the 1960s. He said, “I suppose that’s the trillion dollar question.” “I would agree with you that it is falling apart at a deeper degree.”
“One of the most fascinating things about the Network State idea,” said he. He felt that America lacks this concept now. He said, “If I had one thing to choose, it would be the level of inequality. And I know that that’s a very lefty idea to say.” “There’s something about the shockingly high level of inequality that fuels a lot.
Stokes stated that “I believe liberalism has failed”, echoing perhaps the title of the most well-known expression of this type of thinking, Why Liberalism Fail, by Notre Dame political science professor Patrick Deneen. Surprisedly, President Barack Obama has praised the book. He said that he disagreed with most of its conclusions, but noted a growing disillusionment with liberal democracy and a worrying loss of meaning and community when he recommended it to him on Facebook in 2018.
Stokes explained to me that there was a situation where one could be a civil liberty advocate and another atheist, and the other could be a backwoods Pentecostal, or a Muslim. But we could all be together and we could adjudicate some things and live in community.
One thing I find interesting about these passages, is the distance Kingsnorth and Deneen are from the people featured in the piece. Kingsnorth and me; I haven’t been in touch with Patrick for a while, but I would be surprised if he would read the piece and consider himself a natural part. It’s not something I say in an “icky” way. It’s simply that I’m a middle-class, soft-spoken writer who values his Orthodox Christian faith more than anything else. doesn’t want to shoot federal agents. isn’t wealthy. isn’t interested in crypto schemes or violent resistance. also doesn’t like parties where people smoke hand-rolled cigarettes, then retire to the toilet to use drugs. Paul Kingsnorth was just in rural Ireland. It’s not difficult for me to picture him as a radical but it is hard for me imagine him at those parties.
Although I admit that this crowd is hedonistic, it does make me question their seriousness in achieving their goals. Perhaps I am wrong. We’ll see. What I value most is my Christian faith. It’s closely linked to the possibility of living well and raising a family. Cultural memory. I only care about resisting the regime when it targets these goods. I’m not saying that I would never side with the folks in the Pogue article — obviously our interests overlap — but that I don’t see our salvation to be found in armed secessionist movements led by ketamine-and-coke-using crypto billionaires.
These people may have different perspectives than mine, so I am trying to learn from them. Talking to Kamila Bendova, a Catholic conservative anti-communist dissident, I discovered that you need allies when you’re fighting against tyranny. And those who share your faith commitment might not be there when the secret police arrive.
The main difference between me and this crowd is that I believe it is possible for meaningful change to be made within the current system. It cannot be solved with politics alone. In my opinion, it will not be solved without a widespread, serious return to religion. Viktor Orban’s Hungary is a shining example of what politics can accomplish. Americans on the non-normie Right face a problem. We have not had a party that shares our criticisms of the system in any way. The only countercultural political leader we have had was Trumpian, who was more effective than performative. Because Orban is an example of what can be done with the right political leadership, I continue to recommend Orban to American conservatives. Even Orban admits to the limitations of politics in cultural and social renewal. It’s still something and it’s not a small thing.
Despite that, I agree with the crowd that things cannot continue as they are. That is, that things are in constant decline and that there’s no way to put them back together the usual way. Here’s an excerpt from the Pogue piece.
Their cohort views the Northern Rockies in America as one of few places that can be lived in the next decades. This is a time when many Americans will experience heat waves, flooding, storms and fires. They were worried about the “managed fall” that would be a result of America’s “state capacity”, which is our collective ability to do anything, slowly degrading, hollowing out, and worsening political divisions. This scenario is more like the long-term decline of the Roman Empire rather than a cataclysmic crash. This scenario, a middle course that is muddled and unhappy, is what most people in the sphere predict.
Yes. Consider how hostile both the Republicans and Democrats are to us. The Republican Party is the one that led to the disasters of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries. Many soldiers were left with severe injuries or even death. Joe Biden’s campaign for a wider conflict with Russia is being cheered by the Republican Party. Who benefits from war with Russia? You are not one of them, and declaring so does NOT make you a Putin simp despite what the Establishment and media say. Do you remember when President George W. Bush told us that we needed to fight in Iraq for our “freedom” It was a lie. My friend, a Rush Limbaugh-listening conservative working class man who returned from Iraq wearing a medal on the chest, said that it was a waste. You remember when they said that Afghanistan needed to be a democratic country. Now, one trillion dollars later, the Taliban is once more in control of the country. The US is represented by a nitwit diplomat in Kabul who tweets crap like this as if Afghanistan was an American college campus.
There is a media and entertainment industry that promotes a worldview that suggests our boys might be girls and our daughters may be boys. This gets into their heads and tries to suppress their natural instincts and turn them against us. This isn’t paranoia. It’s actually happening. The news media and entertainment industry are determined to divide Americans by race and stigmatize the half of Americans who are not of Latino descent. This poisonous ideology has been adopted by the major capitalist class, making it an enemy to many Americans. We have the Democrats, who are all for normalizing this stuff in law. The Republicans, on the other hand, have either accepted it or, with some admirable exceptions, have resisted with very little. Washington GOP will continue to focus on tax cuts and foreign warfare as long as it doesn’t care about families, churches or workers.
We can change this, however! Don’t forget it. DeSantis and some GOP state legislatures are leading the charge.
Matt Walsh, a conservative commentator, has been tut-tutted on the Right by others for saying mean things regarding Dylan Mulvaney. He replies:
He adds, in an excellent clip that you should watch.
Walsh is speaking to me in a way when he speaks about how little moderation can do in this kind of war. I don’t enjoy being combative. The culture war that I would prefer to fight is not the one in which we are currently. Because they sometimes follow logic further than I can, I pay more attention to radicals than I do. However, the scary part is when they end up in a bad place. Conservatives like myself wonder if there’s a middle ground between where we are now and where the right-wing radicals want us to go. They are useful in helping us think more deeply about these issues. We can’t assume that these are normal times. They aren’t, and they won’t be again.
But, seriously, think about how difficult it was for Right-leaning people to question the rationality of military service. After the wars of the century and the lies they supported (see the Afghanistan Papers), and considering that the US military has adopted the kind of woke ideologies which demonize those most likely to serve, it’s hard to even question what you’d be fighting for. Over the last three years, I have heard from a lot of military personnel that they are leaving the military after their terms expire. They feel it has become too politicized. They are unsure why they would risk their lives fighting for a ruling group that is hostile to them and works to make their life difficult for their children.
This is a huge deal. When conservatives, or people on the Right, try to separate the US ruling classes from themselves and see the ruling class not governing the state or private institutions with the common interest in mind but instead according to an ideology which attacks core social, religious, and cultural values that were once commonly observed in America, how can you keep the country together? Regular readers will know that Philip Rieff and Alasdair McIntyre both saw that the foundation of culture, a shared religion, and a framework of ultimate value, had been lost long before the starkness and polarization of our current cultural climate.
Paul Kingsnorth has a great point about the Machine. (See more of his thoughts here but you should also subscribe to his essential Substack newsletter). If left-wingers can see this and can join right-wingers that can, then we might actually get something. However, I don’t think that this will happen. But who knows? All rightists and leftists should be able see through the Central Bank Digital Currencies plan. This plan would allow states to regulate the buying and selling of all people in the world. It would also be the biggest blow to liberty in history. This is Mark of Beast stuff, and you don’t need to be a religious person to see it. Everyone who values liberty and wants to participate in a barter system must be able to access the US if this thing goes online. People with foresight do this right now.
The Catholic Church was a solid rock for as long as I can remember, at least theoretically. But not anymore. This is the new decree that Pope Francis issued yesterday, as part of the exciting changes he is making in Catholic life. It states that Rome must approve any future plans to have the Latin mass said.
Last night, I was with some Catholic friends at dinner. One of my friends asked me if the Orthodox and Catholic churches would ever reunite. Unfortunately, no. I explained that one reason was that the Orthodox are very hesitant about the liturgical instability of the Catholic Church. It is absurd that you can have LGBT mass in the Catholic Church, but not Latin one. This is the reality. As far as I can tell, the Latin mass people who really believe the Catholic Church teachings are the goats. But the LGBT Catholics who reject it are its darlings. This makes no sense. You would not believe what you said in 2004 when the John Jay Report on Catholic sex abuse scandal revealed that around 80 percent of victims were men. As I said, here we are. It is hard to understand how it all fits together.
From the piece
Stokes explained to me that there was a situation where one could be a civil liberty advocate and another atheist, and the other could be a backwoods Pentecostal, or a Muslim. But we could all be together and we could adjudicate some things and live in community.
He said that Peter Thiel would be in agreement with this, referring to Thiel’s interest in Rene Girard, the French philosopher. “There was a quasi-Christian state religion that established a greater limit on what was acceptable and unacceptable. Now, that structure is crumbling.”
Balaji said that the community must have a point. “And it must be something that transcends just making money and getting material stuff. Liberalism does not recognize a point.
Yes, liberalism is possible, but you can choose your point. It works when everyone is choosing their point within a predefined framework. Nearly everybody knows there are limits to what the collective can do. This is the problem we don’t have anymore. Kate Forbes, the Scottish National Party politician and brilliant talent, is out of the race in Scotland. She is a Christian who doesn’t believe in same-sex marital equality. This is despite the fact that she has stated that it is a well-established business in Scotland. Not because she is a threat, but because she opposes same-sex marriage as a Christian, she is now considered tainted. Perhaps the future of Scotland is one where people will hate and reject Christianity as the glue that holds it all together.
Return to the original piece
He said, “So that’s what it’s like to ask the civil war question man.” He said that he thought if his middle model was something like the 1970s, which includes bombings and political assassinations he thinks it is reasonable to expect. But he added, “I’m as prepared as I can get.” “I don’t even know what else I could get.” He had visited Singapore recently and, despite being a civil libertarian he found it an interesting contrast to America. I was like man, this area is really high functioning and they care about. He said that they are involved in a collective project. “And they have some kind of benign nationalism.” He shrugged. It could be worse.
Jon Stokes, a very wealthy man, is the one who said that. People like him don’t realize that Americans are at risk of being infected by the virus spreading from countries like Singapore and Hungary. Maybe not. I think I might be stronger than most Hungarians in supporting Hungary’s current order because I know exactly what Viktor Orban is protecting Hungary. Jon Stokes might be that type of Singaporean. A young Spaniard emigrated to Hungary after he couldn’t bear the hegemony in his country. He can now live here as an EU citizen. He believes that the EU’s tired conservatives should be moved to Hungary to consolidate their conservatism. That would be wonderful. But, then, I doubt that the native Hungarians would approve.
I was thinking along these lines when I read the Pogue article. Thinking about what it means to outsiders to flee declining socio-economic orders in order for conservative strongholds that can defend them, made me wonder if there won’t be a surprise for us all if they do. The Pogue article shows how depressed and angry the working-class in the American West feel about all the rich fleeing their home areas’ decadence and decline, making it difficult for them to stay where they came from. I am glad that I have some land from my family in West Feliciana Parish in Louisiana. I will probably be returning there to build a retirement home. It’s impossible for me to afford land right now because outsiders have driven the cost up by 300% over the last thirty years. Although the local natives are friendly and welcoming for the most part they have noticed that their children cannot afford to live in rural areas where their families may have lived for generations.
People might be surprised to find out that the people we thought would welcome us, because we share their values, turn against us as carpetbaggers if a revolution takes place. As a conservative, this is why I truly hope that we can manage these changes within politics and law. Anarchy is the worst form of political evil, and this is a fundamental truth for conservatives. The line between good or evil does not cross between the US Government, and those who oppose it. We all know that many of these prepper-style groups, such as Warren Jeffs’ fundamentalist Mormon church cult, have created their own terrible evils. It is not possible to be ignorant about the human condition. It was last year that I was involved in an online argument with a far-right essayist. He attacked me while defending a “no enemy to the Right” position. This, after I had sharply criticised the racist ex-headmaster of my children’s school. (He was fired after his secret life was exposed). It is difficult for me to see how an oppressive society of rage-filled racists can be better than our current problematic order. It is a Christian thing that I won’t support.
Last thing, I want to say that I do recommend the Matt Walsh video. He is responding to conservatives who criticised him for being too harsh about Dylan Mulvaney, trans advocate. Although I don’t know everything Walsh said about Mulvaney I tend to side with Walsh. Mulvaney and his very influential and powerful supporters are creating a world where they go after our children and try to convince them that they can maim themselves for the rest of their lives. This is an indication of our decadence. Yet, here we are. Do not be ashamed to hate evil and defend truth, especially when lies are being used against your children.
