While I don’t like to get too deep into religion as a blog, I do try to keep it simple. I refer to religion as a separate entity from religion and politics, sociology of religion, and other newsier takeaways. But here’s a story that I have to share with all of you. I just published a interview I did in London earlier this week with Martin Shaw, a mythologist and specialist. The mythology enthusiasts he built over the years cherish his books. You can learn more about them and his life at his website. He wasn’t a religious believer until a strange and miraculous incident occurred to him several years ago as he was finishing a long forest walk in the ruins a Iron Age fort. Martin, whom I liken to Tom Bombadil’s Lost Inkling, is now on the way to Orthodox Christianity. Here’s the beginning of the interview:
RD – Tell me about your conversion.
MS: This whole thing began right before lockdown in October 2019. An impulse, a strange one, drove me to spend considerable time in the local forest each evening. My background is in wilderness passage rituals, so much like the Desert Fathers, I spent a lot of my time going to remote places and just sitting still, fasting, and then sharing that experience with others. This was, in a way, nothing new. It was 101 days, instead of being four days and night. It wasn’t 101 days without food. It was almost like I turned up at Divine Liturgy without knowing the words. I didn’t tell anyone that I was doing it. Even my daughter didn’t know. And I would simply find a way out to get out of my house for one or two hours per day and head to this ancient Devonian forest.
It was because I thought it had been an interesting and fulfilling life. I was looking at the barrel of fifty. Although I wasn’t religious, I was spiritual as a mythologist, storyteller, and mythologist. I wanted to give back to the place that sustained me over these many years. I would either go out at night to recite poetry or tell stories, or just sit still and think. It didn’t matter that I was there to take. I wasn’t there to use Nature for epiphany. I was there to help others.
It was the last night. It was the last night. I was happy to return to my normal life. After a meal, I was full and ready to go. I walked into the forest, knowing it would be an all-night vigil.
The remains of an Iron Age fort can be found in the middle of the wood. It is not visible anymore but can be seen in the ridges. It was my idea that I would just sit in the darkness all night and give thanks. Then it would end.
It was then that something unexpected happened. Then, something very unusual happened.
This is not Blakean visionary or an ayahuasca moment. I was in no altered state when this happened. This happened without me being in any kind of altered state. I looked up at the sky. It was pitch black. It was pitch-black. I can’t recall seeing any stars. But suddenly, it was…
I know, I’m being mean. To see the end of this story, you must subscribe to Rod Dreher’s Diary, My Religion and Spirituality Newsletter, to find out more. The transcript of my second Martin Shaw interview will be published later. Martin later says in this interview:
Myth taught me everything I needed about the conditions of my life. Christianity taught me how to live it.
Martin’s interviews are part of my book on reenchantment. This gifted man, I can tell you, is going to make a huge difference in the world. He said that he lost many of his readers and friends when he converted to Christianity. But he had to go with the flow. Martin’s idea that Christianity must be made wild again, which he shared with Paul Kingsnorth is something I love. With their conversion to Orthodoxy in the middle of their lives, these two Englishmen are bound to be beacons of Gospel light. This is what I believe. Although I have never met Paul, Martin and I spent most of the week together. I can see why he is a compelling storyteller.
In this vein, I asked Christian readers to email me earlier this week their suggestions for making the faith alive for the younger generation. Here are some of the emails that I received
My wife and I often discuss the question of “how to be weird again”. Small steps towards weirdness can be the best. The more you adhere to holy scripture, the better.
This season, we will be focusing on keeping the Sabbath holy. It’s perhaps the least loved commandment of modern American Christians. This means that we have stopped shopping online and in person. This means I won’t work to my best ability. Many clients expect me to be available for them at all times. However, I have been able to set boundaries around Sundays most successfully.
I love the idea of reenchantment, which you are pursuing for your next novel. Re-enchantment seems like a gift from God. After my failed marriage, I was a living corpse for three long years. After my first marriage failed, I was left feeling like a corpse for three years. Then, on a whim, I visited Iceland. Surrounded by all that beauty and by God’s grace, all the magic returned to the world. It is possible to re-enchant.
Another one, this one is from an Orthodox monk
It is difficult to convince young people that Christianity is not just emotionalism and moralism. Young people must be taught how and why it is important to pray. Not just young people but all of us, in this modern age.
This is a touch on the Philip Sherrard quote that you have included. A sacred tradition is, he says, the transmission of a particular form of contemplation. This is clearly hesychasm in Orthodox Christianity. It’s noetic prayer through the Jesus prayer. Similar practices were used in West Europe in earlier times. While not all people will be hermits, all must practice genuine prayer if they are to transcend the chaos of modern life. This has been true for centuries, but it is especially relevant in today’s age of the smartphone and the internet.
Your writings about your book seem to have a common theme of attention. I believe that is what really matters. Although I don’t know if you have, “The World Beyond Your Head” is a wonderful non-religious resource that allows for clarity of thought on the subject. Attention is essential for success, whether we’re talking about prayer or other human activities. It’s a self-reinforcing feedback system, where the fruit of attention naturally draws us closer to the object of interest.
It’s a matter simply of restoring the monastic ideal. It won’t be liked by Protestant readers, but it’s too bad. The modern West was born out of the destruction of the monastic ideal and then the actual monasteries as in the English Reformation. It was my college encounter with the writings of the first desert monastics that opened my eyes to the fact that Christianity has so much more depth that I could ever imagine. For example, Evagrius Ponticus. This is a strange Christianity. My family, except my parents who abandoned church, is mostly Pentecostal. This was my only exposure to Christianity as a child. As a result, I was quite sceptical about religion and Christianity in general. It was overcome by the Desert Fathers.
You know that your audience isn’t limited to Orthodox Christians and you don’t want them to be excluded. There are some things that you can’t ignore. These things cannot be ignored or diluted. To encounter true Christianity’s “strangeness”, a Protestant would need to rethink some foundational assumptions. You seem to have had the opportunity to speak to several experienced Orthodox monks to help you write this book. God bless you for your efforts. You can find real comfort knowing that your work is meaningful and can help many people.
Crawford’s book is a key component of the one that I am currently working on. While I do not want to offend my non-Orthodox friends, it isn’t because of financial concerns. Because I cherish them as my brothers and sisters in Christ and have been blessed by the their friendship and prayers. The monk is correct, though: you can’t avoid certain things. It is difficult for me to convey the truths I believe, while still showing respect for non-Orthodox Christians. However, honesty and love are the best way to show respect for others. However, it can be difficult to know how to do this.
Another:
I believe that people will always create a culture, even in adverse circumstances. As you know, the West’s current secular anti-culture seems to be creating a new culture that is based on sacred victims groups. It is possible that the age Philip Rieff described and characterized is ending, and observers such as you are recognizing the formation of a new culture around a different system of taboos.
It is worth taking a closer look at the 1970s, which are often joked about. As a teenager, I remember how ridiculously cheesy the 1970s were. I was born in 1961. I was eager for fashion to return to something more affordable. They did. But the damage was done. This was a decade when suburban homes lost their character almost entirely. I used to complain about the boring architecture back then, as compared to what was built in the 1950s and 1960s.
The 1970s brought a pop cynicism to the world. This was often blamed on Watergate or Vietnam. But in reality, it was simply the expression of what Rieff already saw. In the 1970s, the Protestant churches saw the collapse of religious practice and feelings. This was what I experienced as a Presbyterian. While ministers were becoming more afraid of making demands on flocks, some were still preaching hard things. In the 1980s and my college years however, the softening of cynicism and cheap cynicism seemed to spread even more, despite the fact that the Moral Majority and other forces were still at work. The very fact that “traditional morality”–presumably the hard truths–had a political movement touting it meant that it could be dismissed by the wider culture as just another option. After 1983, I was in English literature graduate school. This was a completely secular environment. Only one friend was Orthodox, and some others were Episcopalians. I spent Saturday nights at the bar near the university, and slept in on Sundays. Christianity seemed strong enough to me in non-college cities and towns, but weaker wherever I was. It was only then that I realized it could dissipate, and was already doing so in other places. It was clear that I experienced a lot less terror and awe when I went to church back home than I did at university. The ministers were soft-spoken men and women who tried to be understanding and kind, but they didn’t have the same old beliefs. Except for kindness and niceness, no one was able to speak with conviction on moral issues.
It was, however, the end of any sense or terror in the sacred, which has been going for 50 years. This seems to be ending as there are once more things “you don’t know”.
Another:
Christianity is strange. Our God came to live among us as one of them. Our God rose from the dead and died, not metaphorically, spiritually, but bodily. Our faith is grounded in reality. However, it is filled with miracles, a reality that defies logic and reason, but that is far more real than our reality. Our faith is odd. In a world that values instant gratification, we share a faith which tells us to ignore our passions and desires in order to be true to our nature. To become more Truly Human, we must give up our earthly passions. Our God came to live among us as one of us. He also lives in us now, and we become more like Him by consuming His body, and His blood. Angels and Demons battle over us, in us, and amongst us. Your parents, your brothers and sister, all of whom have died, can ask for mercy from the King. Our government is a joke. It is also a bad joke. But, we know that our King is the true government. How many Christians believe this strange stuff? It’s not enough, I fear. I’m not as optimistic as you are, but I am hopeful. I know that we are going through Satan’s long defeat. It is a difficult time to live.
Another:
Statistics and the state Christianity leave us wanting answers about how to make disciples and bring about change. This morning, I was reading the Gospel of Luke chapter 3 and was struck by John the Baptist’s words to the people who were coming to baptism. “So he began to say to the crowds that he was going to baptize: ‘You brood, vipers, who forbade you to flee from God’s wrath?’ It is possible to read it yourself. It was amazing that so many people were coming out to be baptized. The sense of spiritual hunger was not being satisfied by the priests and scribes or seminary-educated people. John was rough but he had what they needed……connection to God. A recent poll found that only 17% of Christians read the Bible every day. This is not two paragraphs or two chapters 2 verses. As you point out in your book, “Live Not by Lies”, we live in a nation that is starved for truth.
From the UK
“How can we convince them that Christianity is more than emotionalism and moralism? But not intellectualizing?” The world does this for us. It is because we live in a negative world, and anyone who believes in Christ and goes to church knows there are social costs. They are aware that it’s not trendy, politically incorrect, and something their family might disapprove. Even though they don’t like the word, they know it causes suffering. They suffer rejection from their friends and family in order to make it through the doors of the church. They will be serious if they keep coming back. It’s the hard part of keeping them coming back – encouraging them not to stop paying the price but to continue to pay it, so that they can be the seed that bears good fruits in the parable about the sower. The church-goers who grow up are the same – they go school, they watch YouTube and they know where the wind is blowing. In their teens, they realize that following Christ requires a cost – some people pay and some don’t. We are left with the hard work of discipleship, to use the evangelical term – where people develop their devotional lives, reach maturity, and give, serve, and love like Christ. There are no shortcuts.
Another thing I find comfort in is the slow, steady growth of the early church. We can take inspiration from the way that the early church grew in spite of persecution by Rome during its first three centuries. They faced more opposition than we do today. They grew. Rodney Stark in The Rise of Christianity says that the early church grew by 3.5% per annum. It’s not much. This means that the rate of growth will double every 20 years. As long as there’s slow and steady growth, that’s okay. That’s what brought Rome down. Pentecostals are growing at a similar rate to mine. Although it’s not remarkable, it’s growth and very few Pentecostals liberalize. Even though I wish things were better, the tortoise beats the hare and there are many tortoiselike churches. They will continue to shuffle along! !
A Catholic revert
My wife and my children have helped me to re-enter the Catholic faith. My wife, who was a Methodist for most of her adult life, converted to Catholicism recently. She believes the church provides the best environment to raise our children. After the McCarrick scandals, and the Amazonian Synod, I was sent reeling from church. To be able listen to mass and take the faith seriously, I couldn’t let go of my disgust at the church. After attending a Methodist church for several years with my wife, I started to let go of the anger & hurt and began to yearn to return to the fold. My wife began to explore the faith and eventually decided that she wanted convert. Soon after, we began to attend mass together. It was important for me to keep my eyes on Christ and not on church politics. Although I have no idea how we will navigate the chaos of the church while raising our children, we feel that we are called to be faithful and to lead by example. We have hope: we go to a church that does not preach woke theology and many young families are there. We plan to create our own Ben Op community and educate our children in a way which doesn’t hide from culture, but offers a new path. It’s a difficult line to walk, but we must. I hope that this helps.
A lay Catholic evangelist
Concerning Vatican II, and the loss faith, I believe you are partially correct.
Implementing Vatican II was a boondoggle, I love that word. But, with regard to the content, it was a attempt to reach a culture that had lost a Christian soul. The content was right, even though the way it was taught and lived out was full of errors and heresies.
Faith was not intimate or personal. It was institutionalized and oriented towards rules. We did what was “expected” to do. We went to Mass, received our Sacraments, and sent our children to Catholic classes or CCD. Because that’s how they raised their children, this is how I was raised by my parents. After Vatican II, the same was true. We did the same as the institutions and those who ran them. We used the vernacular. There were teachers who used us as failures.
Now, fast forward to today. How can we reach a post-Institution, unchurched, postChristian, and largely bored and apathetic society?
You can’t make it happen if you keep doing the same thing that got us in this mess.
There are many things I think about, but the majority of the solution will come from the bottom – in our homes, in our neighborhoods. When we rediscover the meaning of community, through the application of the timeless principles Jesus taught, it will be in our homes. Help the hungry. Pray for one another. Love your neighbor. Preach the Gospel.
However, these ideas should be creative and relevant to today’s society.
It’s still an age of experimentation, but without the stupidity and silliness of the 20th century.
Another:
In Alcoholics Anonymous there is a saying…..”attraction, not promotion”. It is important to remember that you cannot sell sobriety, faith, or preach it and expect people who aren’t convinced to listen. Meetings have speakers who share their personal stories of rising above their problems and how they have transformed their lives. They don’t preach. They don’t preach. People listen, identify with and feel attracted to their stories. They are then inspired to try it (because if THEY CAN do it, so can mine)…Then they find a mentor…a sponsor who will guide them.
The church might need to stop preaching, and embrace Instagram and social media influencers who are able to tell their faith stories. The church should attract young people to become members of its family and then provide support for them one-on-one. This could be more realist than preaching.
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Another:
It’s a great idea to make Christianity more strange.
It’s strange to me that my new community has so many secular elements. I am a Catholic by choice. It’s amazing to me that so many Catholics don’t realize how beautiful their faith is because they haven’t been taught.
We made the decision to move from a dead main parish to one within the Charismatic Movement a few years back and have been very happy with it. It is a personal parish, and people want to be there. It is a ‘intentional Catholic parish’. It would be easy to do without the speaking in tongues, but the priests are excellent teachers of faith and use the word sin often, so it’s not something I have to worry about. As a former Protestant, it’s this one thing that makes me uncomfortable about going to mass at the church. I have slowly come to accept it. It’s what it is.
I chose the faith because it fed me intellectually and spiritually. It really upsets my heart when people try to make it more accessible for the general public. My Protestant faith teachers have made me feel betrayed because they gave me only half of my Christian story. They did not tell the whole story. It really bothers me to hear about leaders who aren’t trying to offend people. They forget that Jesus, with his persistentness and determination to speak the truth, offended many people. There are many reasons the church teaches what it does. The Catechisms of the Catholic Church is my favorite book. It’s not surprising, but it’s also one of my favorites. It provides so many reasons why the church believes and teaches the things she does. It shows me the Christianity I love and want to be a part of. It is so much more than God being love and bird photos. That’s what I hope the church will focus on in Christianity.
I would rather be with a small group of genuine believers than with a large number of fakers.
If you are unable to post your responses to any of the above, please email them to rod –at — amconmag –dot — com. In the subject line, please put FAITH. I get so many emails daily that I miss some things.
